Welcome, Guest. Please Login
Trapper Owner Association
  News:
  HomeHelpSearchLogin  
 
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Re-Engining Trapper 28 (Read 5224 times)
Heber
Seaman Apprentice
**
Offline

If I knew then!

Posts: 23
Carlingford Ireland
Gender: male
Re-Engining Trapper 28
01.03.2010 at 22:59:26
 
Hi Guys      Trapper 28  Hawk Moon  -   Ireland.

We currently have a Nanni 2.40HE circa 1990 – 1995 Manufacture.
The history of this engine before it came into our possession is unknown in terms of previous use or problems.  The current state of play is that it has a serious over heating problem and is drinking Oil.   We are currently investigating the possibility of replacing or rebuilding the engine.  To say that the Nanni was a tight fit is an understatement.  The critical point was the exhaust turn down and the forward underside leading edge of the cockpit sole, not even dinner knife room. But generally working about the engine area is very difficult / tight.

So why the post?   If anybody has re-engined a trapper 28 with a diesel engine I would appreciate their insight into the project and their recommendations.   I have prepared a spreadsheet using the current Nanni 2.40HE dimensions as a base line and tried to compare other engines to see if they will fit into the space available.  NB I am not an engineer and the source drawings are mainly Marketing, not to scale drawings, take all measurements with a large pinch of salt.

A spread sheet with the comparisons is available but I do not know if I can attach it to this post.  Email address heber@iol.ie.   Would it be possible for you to supply photographs of installed diesel engines, actually in the trapper, specifying the manufacturer and model number.  This would give me a better understanding of what may fit.

The engines that I have compared, on paper, are as follows.  Nanni 2.40HE (10.6HP), Nanni 2.10N (10HP), Yanmar YM-2YM15 (13.3HP), Yanmar 1GM10 (9HP), BETA 10 TMC40 (10HP), BETA BZ482 (13.3HP), BETA 14 (13.5HP), Lombardini LDW 502 M (13HP) and Volvo Penta D1-13 (11.8HP).

The Nanni 2.10N may fit but it will be very tight especially in the aft starboard quarter. The Yanmar 1GM10 (9HP) would appear to be an easy fit. The BETA 10 TMC40 appears to be a good fit except for the aft port quarter where the cooling sea water enters the exhaust pipe.  The BETA 14 TMC60 Atomic Feet (not sure what Atomic Feet are) The TMC60 appears to be a longer gearbox unit.   If you have fitted any of these or other diesel engines I would appreciate your input.   Unfortunately money is an issue.

The Lombardini LDW 502 M (13HP) appears to be a good fit and I know of one trapper that has a Lombardini fitted but I don’t know the model.

How critical have you found the issue of HP of the engine.   Given the relatively short water line length of the trapper 28 is there much difference between a 9HP and a 13HP engine.  Comments please.

I would have attached a photo but you appear to only be able to attach one file.

Any feed back is appreciated.
Regards Heber.
Back to top
 

DSC01619.JPG
Heber Heber   IP Logged
keith
Seaman Apprentice
**
Offline

I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 8

Re: Re-Engining Trapper 28
Reply #1 - 12.03.2010 at 21:11:44
 
Hi. I re-engined a 400 a couple of years ago with a Kuboto 12hp diesel. I have copied from my posting from then. Hope it helps. I no longer own her as I have moved on to a nice shiny new Hanse 320. The story is as follows.

After working on Querida (400 Trapper) over the winter she's now had her dolphin engine replaced by a diesel complete with 3 bladed prop. For info the engine is a 12 hp reconditioned Kubota with a ZF g/box. It all slipped in nicely on new stainless engine brackets bolted to the side of the existing bed. The old bed supports had to be cut down in height by about 3 inches to allow room around the shallow engine sump. The engine rests on rubber supports that came with the engine. The prop is a 3 bladed 11 1/2" x 10 one supplied by the Scottish Prop services in Banff at £140. I also replaced the bronze 19mm shaft with a stainless steel version of the same diameter but cut to length. The only thing that remains is the fuel tank although I had to fit a spill return line to it. Everything else had to be replaced. One item that I decided to add was an electronic fuel pump as the bottom third of the fuel tank lies below the injector pump and there is no fuel lift pump on the engine. The system operates with or without the pump but will help reduce the possibility of getting air in the system. Controls are of the morse type. There was very little work needed within the saloon to allow the engine to fit.
Had her on trials over the last couple of weeks and I'm finding the difference is quite substantial to the old 2 bladed prop. She goes at about 2-3 kts at the slowest engine speed so that's going to take getting used to when coming along side. There has been absolutely no sign of any drag caused by having 3 blades in fact we managed to get the boat up to 7.7 knts on sail tacking across the clyde yesterday. As there is only about 1/2 knt of tidal stream and we were going across the tide I thought that was pretty decent. To finish the job I now need to finish sound proofing around the engine. After working in the rain, snow and everything else the Scottish weather could throw us at Kip the results so far look to be pretty promising but I'd recommend doing it under cover if anyone is also considering it. Better still get someone else to do it!!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T28
Seaman Recruit
*
Offline

Love the water !

Posts: 1

Re: Re-Engining Trapper 28
Reply #2 - 06.10.2010 at 13:44:57
 
Hi - really interested to know how you got on with the re-engining.  Have just bought a Trapper28 and although I'm getting used to the Dolphin I am toying with the idea of putting in a new diesel.

What did you go for in the end?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Heber
Seaman Apprentice
**
Offline

If I knew then!

Posts: 23
Carlingford Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Re-Engining Trapper 28
Reply #3 - 23.02.2012 at 22:26:01
 
Has it been that long. Doesn’t time fly when your are having fun.

The post above indicates two main problems 1 The engine was using a lot of Oil and 2 there was a persistent over heating problem with the engine.

In the final analysis the following decisions were taken.

I decided to rebuild the Nanni 2.40HE (10.6HP) engine. At least I knew that would fit back in and at 10.6HP was reasonable powerful for the space available.

Unfortunately even after rebuilding the engine the over heating problem persisted. You can imagine my surprise, a very polite way of putting it.   But knowing that it could not be the engine it must be the Heat Exchanger that was the cause of the problem.  Let me assure you that this heat exchanger had been with the local radiator man on a number of occasions, prior to the rebuild, and was reported as functioning properly.  I was very lucky and it turned out, that the said radiator man, happened to have a similar sized heat exchanger literally in the corner of his workshop.  They were more or less identical and naturally having the two heat exchangers side by side I performed a few tests with my garden hose in terms of flow rates through the various input / output paths.

The Sea Water (cooling) path FLOW was similar between both heat exchangers and free flowing.

The Engine Coolant path on both heat exchangers allowed a reasonable flow of water through and it was only when you saw the difference between both units was it obvious that there was a substantial obstruction in the old heat exchanger.

Yes I had cleaned the old heat exchanger with caustic soda and very little residue was flushed out.   The problem was that it was only when you had two units side by side, did the difference, become obvious.

So the question is, if you had only one heat exchanger how would you know if the Engine Coolant Path was free flowing.  My suggestion is that you would place the garden hose against the coolant input pipe and feel the amount of “back pressure” against you hand.   If this was positive then it would suggest that there was an amount of resistance with in the stack.    This is presuming that you have no way of measuring the pressure.   The follow up question to the above experiment is, given that amount of back pressure, would the coolant be more inclined to pass through the bypass pipe rather than the heat exchanger after the thermostat opened.

This is exactly the situation what was happening to our engine. In fact the first time I ever managed to effect the temperature of the engine was when I placed a vice grips on the bypass pipe, desperate situations require desperate measures.

Another comment is that older diesel engines should not run overly hot.  The current temperature range is between 65c and 68c.  Try and get the manufactures maintenance manual for the engine. It actually stated that 82c was the over heating temperature.  A balmy day in comparison to the temperatures I had previously achieved.  Ignorance was ignorance not bliss.

The comment about the temperature above relates to the number of persons who stated that higher temperatures are acceptable in diesel engines.

Any way you deserve a follow up after all this time.

By the way I have another question but I will start a new thread for that.

Fair Sailing.
Heber.

Back to top
 
 
Heber Heber   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print