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suitable engines for ts240 (Read 2961 times)
john mcintyre
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suitable engines for ts240
21.02.2015 at 12:21:32
 
Hi all,
I am new to this forum, I am the new owner of Tamsin. TS240 last owned by Steve Taylor. The boat came with a Tohatsu 6hp two stroke engine, I would like to change it for a 4 stroke engine (less noise, less fumes, less fuel consumption) I have been looking at Tohatsu 9.8hp 4 stroke and it looks to me that it may not fit in the cockpit well. Does anyone know what 4stroke engine of this hp will fit in the well?

regards----------john      
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Paul
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #1 - 22.02.2015 at 19:39:14
 
Hi John,
Welcome to the forum.
Good to know we are still in touch with Tamsin.
There is a lot of earlier discussion on engines that you can access on the forum.
Most people have found that 6HP is adequate for the TS240. Though if you can face adverse conditions regularly a greater output is useful.
However the 4 stroke engines get rather big after 6HP and wont fit the well.
Steve spent some time finding his 6HP Twin Cylinder two stroke Tohatsu as he wanted less vibration and noise.
The model ended up with is I believe basically the same as the Tohatsu  8 and 9.9HP ( I have the  8HP version on Nautibuoy)  just detuned.
This fits the well with minimum fettling of the web supporting the cavitation plate so you can get up to virtually 10HP in the well if you wish.
Fuel consumption will be worse with the Two Stroke at same HP but there are advantages to lower weight if you have to lift engine in and out.
Two strokes are easier to maintain and work on and of course are far less sensitive to lay down storage problems where oil can migrate to the cylinder!
I use a sail drive prop which greatly helps close quarter handling.
I, sure you will get replies from others who actually use 6 HP 4 strokes to give a balanced view!
Enjoy the sailing - the TS 240 is hard to beat.
Paul
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john mcintyre
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #2 - 23.02.2015 at 13:13:11
 
Hi Paul,

many thanks for your reply. perhaps the 6hp Tohatsu may be more suitable than I first though. As you say Steve spent some time before he decided on the 6hp Tohatsu, I would respect his decision on this matter. Weight would certainly be a factor with the 4 stroke engines. Paul I am not quite sure what you mean by fettling with the web supporting the cavitation plate, for getting a bigger engine to fit in the well.
I may consider fitting a bigger 2stroke engine, as the west coast of Ireland can be rough at times. The extra engine power can be a good safety factor entering estuarys in rough weather.

regards------------john.  
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Paul
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #3 - 23.02.2015 at 16:28:30
 
Hi John,
I believe the basic engine is the same for 6,8 and 9.8 HP twin two stroke Tohatsu with only carburettor differences.

This means that you should be able to uprate your existing 6HP to the larger outputs if required at a minimal cost of needles/jets etc. without the expense of a new engine and keeping the same fit in the well.
Check with Tohatsu for details of how to uprate.
Going up in power will of course use more fuel!

On Nautibuoy my 2005 engine fouled the rear lower edge of the well at the stiffening web between leg and horizontal cavitation plate (over the prop). The simple fettling job was to remove a small 1cm strip about 2.5 cm long up from bottom edge of triangular stiffener. It may not be necessary on yours - depends on geometry of angle of attack of prop and shaft and your clearance in well. If there was a problem  then I'm sure Steve would have fixed it already!
Where in Ireland will Tamsin be based?

best regards
Paul
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john mcintyre
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #4 - 23.02.2015 at 21:11:57
 
Hi again Paul,
Thanks for that info. on the engine/carbs. I will certainly check that one out. Tamsin is based on the estuary (on a drying out mooring) of the river Erne at Ballyshannon Co. Donegal. The estuary entrance sand bar is only safe to pass when the weather is suitable and also only one hr. either side of High water. Not the ideal situation, so for that reason I also have a deep water mooring at Mullachmore Co. Sligo which is only twenty min. drive from my home. I am now retired and have more time at my disposal than I had in the past, so I really dont mind waiting around for the tide if I have to.
By the way has anyone ever put davits on the transom of a TS240. I am toying with the idea. I dont like towing a dingy as it really slows you down. I am thinking of making them out of S.S. tubing and have them so they can be removed easily. I have taken some measurements and it looks possible if  the rudder is moved fully to the left or right when the dingy will be lowered or raised.
let me know what you think
regards---------------john.
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Jonathan
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #5 - 26.02.2015 at 13:15:46
 
I have owned Azurian since 1990 and have found 6 hp ample. The boat came with a 6 hp Chrysler twin which I managed to kill off and replaced it with a Mariner 2 stroke 6hp twin. Again there was ample power and the motor was excellent in all respects bar one. It wieghed 35 kg and was a real brute to lift in and out of the well. A few back problems finally helped me decide to let it go. I got hold of one of the last Yamaha 5hp 2 strokes and have found it gives all the power I need. It does not develop the torque of the Mariner but that was a detuned 9.9 so was dragging a large propeller through the water when not running.

I hope you have the original plug for the outboard well. Try sailing with it in place and the difference with having the motor in situ is dramatic - quiet with no sloshing, dry feet and noticeably better speed - I think the clean flow over the rudder helps too. A lightweight motor gives you the ability to stash it in the locker at will and deploy it quickly even in a seaway with ease. I think most of the small four strokes are the same weight for 4,5or6 hp output so the choice is yours. If you can lay hands on a reliable 5/6 two stroke I would say go for it but the 6 models tend to be twins and heavier.

These boats sail so well it is a pity to handicap them with an outboard propeller  - the motor is mostly only needed as an auxilliary.
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ptatham
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #6 - 10.03.2015 at 15:33:51
 
I bought a new four stroke Tohatsu 6hp long shaft sailpower last season it also has 12v charging which is handy.  
Pushes Fooster along fine.  Motored around Portland Bill and most of Lyme Bay at the end of last season.  Blimey its noisy if you up the revs to push on a bit, but its very efficient and has plenty of power. (I use the 12v to power the autohelm, so I can sit up the front!)  

Even with a hi thrust prop is cavitates at anything more than 2/3rds power.

Hope this helps...

Patrick
Trapper TS240 'Fooster'
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john mcintyre
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #7 - 28.03.2015 at 12:16:45
 
Hi all,
can anyone tell me what the large bolt at the bottom of the L/H side of the keel housing is for ? I am not quite sure what Steve said , in relation to it was. Could it be for locking the keel down , in a seaway ? I am not sure what he said. If someone can help me with this one it would be great. There is no one near me, or in our Club familiar with the Trapper TS 240.
regards---John.
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Paul
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #8 - 28.03.2015 at 15:31:58
 
Hi John
Yes the bolt is there to lock keel fully down in case you get flattened in severe conditions.
Paul
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Jonathan
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #9 - 05.05.2015 at 11:56:13
 
I have had to put my hitherto trusted Yamaha Two stroke 5hp to one side as a few days before scheduled lift in I discovered eruptions or cracks on both sides of the casting at the bottom of the leg where the gears and water pump are. It is 15 years old and a brief call to the Yamaha agent suggested the cost of a repair was unlikely to be economic. I had doubts about how well the cooling water was circulating so there may be other problems lurking.

I needed a reliable motor in a few days and Extreme Marine could get a Tohatsu 6hp to me with a day to spare.

These are my early experiences as I have only had a couple of top of the tide sails since lift in day. Even keeping throttle opening within first 2 hours run in limits it has ample power to push the TS240 along quicker than any of the motors I have used in it before. It got me away from my crowded mooring turning up into a full force 5 when the little Yamaha might have needed me to turn away down wind to get up some speed first. As far as noise goes I have not been running it for long enough to get on my nerves - it is certainly a lower tone than the screaming of a small 2 stroke with open throttle. Vibration does not seem too bad either and Tohatsu claim to have improved that. It certainly isn't as handy in and out of the locker and into the well as my old Yamaha 5 but a lot easier than the Yamaha 6 twin I used before that.

I do have one gripe though and discovered for myself an irritating quirk of which I had read on the web but discounted. The steering friction knob does not do up tight enough to lock the motor in the straight ahead position, with the result it tends to go off to starboard if not held. Apparently these motors have been like this for years. I have found there is a locking device made to overcome this but a Tohatsu dealer told me it would cost about £100 and he had not ordred one for years. I could get one on the web fom USA for about £14 but the postage is phenomenal. Meanwhile I read of one owner using a cord lashing so this is what I have resorted to going through the lifting handle and the top of the clamp casting. Heath Robinson yes but it works - frustrating to have to do this having spent the best part of £1000.

I would love to hear from anybody else with one of these motors how they get it started reliably. My experience so far has been something like a return to old Seagull days except for no oiled plugs. The book says throttle closed and full choke - it just coughs splutters and dies. Three or four pulls like that then shut the choke and nearly full throttle seems a bit better but if it doesn't work I need to start the process again and repeat several times. The throttle has a "restart" position for warm starting - but it doesn't. Small motors have been part of my life for the best part of 60 years, lawn mowers, motorcycles and outboards but this one is frustrating me. The last two motors I have used in the TS240 have started between 1 & 3 pulls and my little Honda 2 on the dinghy is usually 1 or 2 pulls to get goinng. When I take this motor for a service I shall be interested to see how they do it though most likely as these things do it will behave perfectly.

What with shipping in the Thames and Medway and the proximity of the marshes I sometimes need the motor out of the locker and running in short order so experience so far is a tad concerning. Any comments will be received with interest.
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« Last Edit: 05.05.2015 at 11:57:53 by Jonathan »  
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Paul
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #10 - 05.05.2015 at 17:57:19
 
Hi Jonathan,
What prop do you have?
As to the rotation against failing clamp, would a small G Clamp assist?
Look forward to hearing further reports.
Enjoy the new season!
Paul
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ptatham
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #11 - 14.05.2015 at 12:25:27
 
Suggest you take the Tohatsu back to the dealer for a tune up if you are experiencing starting problems, on Fooster, mine always starts second pull.  First pull full choke, second pull half choke then straight in, with the throttle triangles lined up.  I have the same problem too with the engine not staying straight, be careful not to overtighten the bolt on the leg as this could cause damage.  I have also access to a cnc lathe, so I made a natty little fitting to go into the leg to allow the fumes to through the back of the cockpit, then out through the transom (all with hoselock fittings), this might be the cause of your starting problem as your engine might be suffocating.  Let me know if you want a fitting, but ask your dealer to take the leg off the engine, as you do not want swarf inside the leg when you drill out the exhaust halfway down the leg to allow the fitting to be screwed in.  When I spoke to Tohatsu they were happy with what I did and it does not affect the warranty.  Happy Sailing! Patrick
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Jonathan
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Re: suitable engines for ts240
Reply #12 - 31.05.2015 at 17:36:01
 
Thanks for your comments guys. The motor seems to be behaving a little better now - got it started second pull straight out of the locker twice, but for a restart I find it best to open the throttle around halfway rather than using the marked position just a smidgin open as the manual says. Perhaps a little running in has helped as I seem to remember something similar with the little Honda I use on my dinghy when that was brand new.

The cord lashing is working fine so I will leave it at that for now and maybe try and persuade my son to pick up one of the steering locks next time he visits the US. It just seems frustrating that a motor is produced that cannot be locked straight ahead especially as they produce a "saildrive" version. I already chipped a bit off one of the wings on the adjuster turnbuckle when on first day I thought I would give it a helping hand with a mole wrench. One article I read on the web suggested it was another manifestation of "Elf and Safety" aided and abetted by Tohatsu's lawyers.

I have the standard short shaft version with standard prop. I was offered the saildrive version but it cost a bit more and I don't rally need the battery charging as a solar panel does the job well enough and I only use the engine a few minutes at a time mostly. I figured if I needed it I could get the high thrust prop later but so far the standard pitch one, even at run in  speeds of less than half throttle seems to give ample power. I will have to see how it goes if required to push against a strong blow. I guess a "saildrive" might be a long shaft too which is not necessary on the TS240

On a related topic I needed to buy this motor as a replacement for my Yamaha as that had suffered some form of corrosion from inside the bottom section of the leg causing part of the surface to flake away on both sides. It wasn't much but I didn't feel inclined to risk it. I was a bit surprised as although the motor was about 15 years old half its life it had been stored indoors by the guy I bought it from and indeed I got it with less than 10 hours running. My little Honda suffered a similar problem higher up the leg when less than 5 years old but after a bit of persuasion Honda agreed to provide for the leg to be replaced. I have had other motors reach a good age without this problem and seen many left on the stern apparently not going this way. Perhaps it is a lottery if you get one with impurities in the casting. I suspect a lot of the legs come from the same source regardless of make of the motor as my Honda leg was almost identical in detail to the one on a Yamaha which preceded it.
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