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Mast rake and the “Black Band” (Read 452 times)
Fredster
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Mast rake and the “Black Band”
31.03.2022 at 00:05:18
 
Hi guys,
I’m looking to follow the rigging guide in the pinned notes. This first step is confusing me as I don’t seem to have a “black band”
“The mast should first of all be adjusted to have a rake of approximately eight to twelve inches measured at the black band when a weight is hung on the main halyard”

I’m guessing it would be near the gooseneck or the foot. I found a reference to it being at the head of the sail but that isn’t adding up very well in my mind. There is a black ring as part of the spreaders bracket. Is that it ?
Can someone confirm please?
Thanks in advance.
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« Last Edit: 31.03.2022 at 00:10:54 by Fredster »  
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Paul
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #1 - 31.03.2022 at 08:30:47
 
Hi,
Black bands set max length of sail luff usually for racing according to class rules for all boats.
One is at top of mast and one sets lowest position of boom .
If  the displacement of the weighted halliard from the mast will not differ much over several inches of position.
If sails are on stretch the luff down the mast by pressure on boom and use the top of boom as your guide. Otherwise use the gooseneck position  as a guide.
It's not overly critical measurement until you are into hard racing!
Cheers
Paul
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Fredster
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #2 - 31.03.2022 at 21:44:39
 
Thanks for this one too Paul.
Yes, I hear you about it not needing to be precise but I want to start in the right place-ish.
Top of gooseneck is what I’ll use so. Weighted halyard sitting at 8 to 12 inches out.
This boat has a lovely advantage in the balance area. It has a swing keel. I’ll be interested to see how I can play with the lateral balance through feeling the weather helm change as the keel is swung back a bit.
Thanks for the input once again.
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Paul
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #3 - 05.04.2022 at 08:49:57
 
Hi
Very few if any have a swing keel so your results will be interesting .
However don't forget that the rudder should rock back and forward in its stock. This can have a big effect on weather helm. You won't have to compromise with less keel depth if you get this right.
Try top of rudder pushed to rear of stock to reduce weather helm.
Paul
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Jonathan
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #4 - 06.04.2022 at 16:45:37
 
I quite agree with Paul. If the rudder stock is pushed back to the full extent possible (several inches) the lower part of the blade swings forward of the line of pivot so it becomes beautifully balanced. There should be virtually no weather helm unless the sail plan is badly unbalanced. Most people who have sailed with me have commented on how light and positive the helm is.

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Fredster
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #5 - 07.04.2022 at 20:25:40
 
This is really interesting to read. That sounds like beautiful balance you are able to achieve.
I think we have a different rudder. Judging by the older fixture points on the upper rudder mounting it may have been changed. Can’t be sure. Anyway I think this rudder looks very fixed.
Have either of you got an image for my comparison?
https://pin.it/4UZQHov
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« Last Edit: 07.04.2022 at 20:42:27 by Fredster »  
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Fredster
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #6 - 07.04.2022 at 20:41:43
 
Digressing a little more.
Has anyone had to repair the support structure under the mast step? What’s involved?
Also, has anyone seen a nice way to put a boot or skirt over the foot and step to reduce damp ingress?
Boots are common on clean round masts but not so typical on extruded aluminium masts with a track and lines running out the bottom. (At least from what I can see). I just want a skirt to reduce sitting water collecting.
I can’t say yet that it’s damp under the deck. But I worry when I see the cracks in the gelcoat just on either side of the step fitting.
Possibly a bevelled coating of a flexible and waterproof material just over these cracks to the hight of the step fitting. I’m reluctant to say silicone as I’m not sure it will hold up well.
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Jonathan
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #7 - 08.04.2022 at 20:19:20
 
Your rudder is quite different to that of a TS240 where the blade or foil resides in a cage in which it can rise or fall. The rear of the top section is cut away at an angle so it can be tilted back when lowered into the cage. Yours simply appears to rise and fall on a rail so there is no tilt available to bring the leading edge forward of the pivot line so that it becomes balanced. I would think some degree of weather helm is inevitable in some conditions.

I think the mast step must also be very different. The cabin top/mast step in the TS240 are supported from below by the very substantial keel casing. There is absolutely no sign of stress on my boat there so I am not sure I can offer much suggestion
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Paul
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #8 - 09.04.2022 at 10:12:09
 
Looks like you have a TS 240 rudder blade like mine but it's geometry is fixed by direct  connection to top and bottom long bolted brackets.
It would be easy to convert to one like ours but pricey if you don't have access to cheap stainless steel fabrication.
A word of caution. The rudder blade is a foam filled grp moulding and it is essential this foam has been kept dry. They used an open cell foam that can break down when wet.
If retaining current set up make sure no water ingress via bolt holes in bracket to blade attachment. Broken down foam has little strength and will need replacing with  alternative at any stress points. I used epoxy resin but it does add a bit of weight and at a cost! The rudders are best kept out of the water when moored to avoid this problem and of course are ideally capable of raising and lowering to suit water depth as per swing keel or our lift keel.
Paul
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #9 - 10.04.2022 at 13:17:40
 
Your mast step be similar in principle to TS 240 with lift keel but it's rigidity / structural support will be different.
Nautibuoy has some stress cracks to forward deck but they havenot changed in 18 years and I assume they were a stress relief soon after initial use 41 years ago!
There has been no water ingress into laminate it's just the gel coat which probably had some foaming in those days which could have weakened it.
I find that cracks look far worse when on shore and dirt has got in. If you pressure wash it virtually disappears. Suggest if no evidence of water ingress there isn't a problem but there would be no harm in a mastic bead around the mast plate if it eases your mind.
In my opinion on no account should you try digging out and filling as you potentially get two cracks one each side of repair. This of course presumes the situation  is and has been stable.
Best to get her out and sailing and make judgements from experience of use!
Paul
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Fredster
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #10 - 11.04.2022 at 00:10:11
 
Still a little way to go but yes. I’m hoping to get things stable and safe and then find some water with gentle wind. Then, enjoy and watch what’s happening re rigging etc. it we’ll tell me a lot.

My little hiccups to get over before I can hoist a sail.
-Bent jib furling section needed straightening. We pulled off the furling, drilled two rivets. Straightened the bend enough (I hope ) to be useful for a first season.
That all needs reassembling.
- The top of the mast has (or had) a wind vane with antenna. The bracket holing it onto the mast is snapped. So this antenna is lashed to the mast. In itself I’m not overly bothered for a first gentle season as I’m on a lake. But someone, who I hope learned a valuable lesson, put the lashing around the main halyard!!  (in my defence it was a long and tiring day like many lift ins I’m sure)
So a trip up the mast is needed and I should grease a sheave or two while up there also.
- boom still needs to go on
- fuel in tank needs changing

There is another question.
Has anyone ever come across a 5 litre fuel tank for the outboard engine?
I want to stop being frustrated with having too much fuel left over from the previous year. So far I only see 12 litre tanks.
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Jonathan
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #11 - 11.04.2022 at 16:48:16
 
Pour it into the car or donate it if you are a diesel driver.
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Fredster
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Re: Mast rake and the “Black Band”
Reply #12 - 11.04.2022 at 22:17:26
 
It’s the messing about and the drips that put me off. Even keeping a funnel 1. Clean 2. Available 3. Not dripping where it’s put.
Possibly I have some process and organising lessons to learn in this area.
LPG seems attractive. Tohatsu have a 6Hp version.
For the moment I guess I’ll just try to learn or develop some simple ways to reduce the spill, drip, and oily grime.
1. I noticed some people always have a JCloth type rag tied to the handle. That seems interesting for cleaning up.
2. I might try to keep the loose accessories in a very large ziplock bag.
3. A smaller 12 litre tank would make the lifting easier.
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